tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19268887.post115137093981848301..comments2024-03-17T18:44:03.058+11:00Comments on Lazy Luddite Log: QuotaDanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12710148812664294219noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19268887.post-1153111467611624512006-07-17T14:44:00.000+10:002006-07-17T14:44:00.000+10:00I do have to be careful however to note that the A...I do have to be careful however to note that the American settlers at the time of the Declaration of Independence (1776) were <EM>far</EM> from the most oppressed society in history. Indeed the comparative civility of the British may well have been a contributing factor in the success of the American Revolution. <BR/><BR/>It is a very complex bit of history as I have only recently began to understand from reading both non-fiction and fictional texts on the topic.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12710148812664294219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19268887.post-1152702060351199332006-07-12T21:01:00.000+10:002006-07-12T21:01:00.000+10:00The context really helps, thanks. Powerful resonan...The context really helps, thanks. Powerful resonant rallying cries made in times of oppression deserve far more leeway for 'overstating the case'.Jachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05064250790526923038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19268887.post-1152673274576208932006-07-12T13:01:00.000+10:002006-07-12T13:01:00.000+10:00If the quote was expanded upon to recognise the co...If the quote was expanded upon to recognise the complex relationship between freedom and stability in all contingencies then it would cease to be a powerful and resonant statement and become just another paragraph in some political sociology textbook.<BR/><BR/>From what I have read it seems Jefferson was erring on the side of caution. At the time oppression was the norm and a condition that other conditions were very likely to revert to. As such every effort needed to be made to preserve any kind of liberty won and if push came to shove then too much was better than too little.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12710148812664294219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19268887.post-1151895242166906932006-07-03T12:54:00.000+10:002006-07-03T12:54:00.000+10:00'A society that will trade a little liberty for a ...'A society that will trade a little liberty for a <BR/>little order will lose both, and deserve neither' <BR/>- Thomas Jefferson<BR/><BR/>I've never been able to figure how that statement is true. It seems to be saying that no liberty can be sacrificed for order, as order will not follow from reduced liberty.<BR/><BR/>As I see it, though, we do trade liberty for order in our society, and with enforcement, the trade-off seems to me to work on balance. eg: Drivers are not at liberty to travel at 100kph through areas of regular heavy pedestrian traffic = safer and more orderly towns and cities.<BR/><BR/>I do see that the quote is being used as a caution against ceding too much liberty for too little order with regard to counter-terrorism laws, and I agree that that is bad, and is happening. Still, I'm not sure that that is exactly what Mr Jefferson said.Jachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05064250790526923038noreply@blogger.com